Park and Recreation Advisory Board 

APPROVED Meeting Minutes ~ November 20, 2013 

 

Present: Lola Skolnik, Marc Siegel, Kelly Ivy, Betty Sonnevelt, Ken Blue, Les 
Whitmer, Chris Husker, Jay Shah, Alice Murphy, Michael Lee, Abdul 
Turay. 

 

City Council: Leta Mach, Liaison, Emmitt Jordan, Mayor, Konrad Herling, Silke Pope 
(all left at 7:55 p.m. to attend Council Work Session) 

 

Staff: Julie McHale, Liaison, David Moran, Joe McNeal, Joe Doss, Louisa 
Robles 

 

Guests: Steve Zirkin, PSAC, Honora Hammett, YAC 

 

Speakers: Patricia McManus, MNCPPC-MC, Steve Lienesch, GameTime, Inc. 

 

The meeting was called to order by Lola Skolnik at 7:37 p.m. 

 

Ms. Skolnik provided an overview of the agenda noting the purpose tonight is to gather 
information and educate PRAB on the issues related to selection of appropriate 
playground surfacing in Greenbelt. 

 

Ms. Patricia McManus was introduced and welcomed to the meeting. Ms. McManus is a 
licensed landscape architect and supervises the Park Design Section for Maryland 
National Capital Park and Planning Commission, Montgomery County Parks. 

 

Ms. McManus presented a Power Point overview of what has been done by MNCPPC-
MC in the past two years to assess playground surfacing systems and methods used to 
determine appropriate surfacing at various parks. Attached and included in these minutes 
is a copy of the Power Point presentation. 

 

During the presentation, samples of various playground surfacing were passed around for 
inspection by PRAB and members of the audience. Samples included: Bonded Rubber, 
Poured in Place Rubber, Rubber Tiles, Rubber Nuggets, Engineered Wood Fiber and 
Synthetic Turf Surfacing. 

 

At the conclusion of the Power Point Ms. Skolnik asked if a Composite System (one 
which uses more than one type of surfacing) is effective in providing access to play 
elements. It was noted that it does but that it is important to develop a design that makes 
both ground level and elevated elements accessible. 

 

Mr. Siegel noted that the cost estimates provided were for single surfacing types and not 
for Composite Systems. Ms. McManus advised that is correct. It is possible to determine 
pricing in advance but since each park is different in size, configuration, etc. it is difficult 
to establish a “rule of thumb” cost estimate when using multiple surfacing systems. 

 


Mr. Lee asked if there was a difference in the possible harmful effects of rubber versus 
recycled tires. The response was that harmful effects have not been established so it is 
difficult to make a determination on rubber versus recycled tires. More research is 
needed. 

 

Mr. Lienesch noted there are a wide variety of manufacturers that use different methods 
and materials for various surfaces. For example, his company uses recycled tennis shoes 
for some components of surfacing systems while other use different materials. It was 
noted that consumers need to consider the materials and manufacturing methods when 
selecting a surfacing system. Manufacturers should provide Material Safety Data Sheet 
(MSDS) info on their products. Further, proper installation is critical to the life span of 
the system. 

 

Ms. Skolnik asked Mr. Doss if, in his opinion, based on his experience in maintaining 
Greenbelt playgrounds if he had a preference. Mr. Doss noted a preference for Poured in 
Place surfacing primarily because of reduced maintenance requirements. As a general 
rule, Mr. Doss and his crew top off Engineered Wood Fiber (EWF) every 3 to 4 years and 
attempt to rake EWF once a month. 

 

Ms. Skolnik asked about the qualities and characteristics of EWF. Ms. McManus and 
Mr. Lienesch advised it is double or triple shredded, run through a sieve to ensure proper 
sizing, remove bark, sticks, debris, etc. Ms. McManus noted the International Playground 
Equipment Manufacturers Association (IPEMA) has developed new guidelines for proper 
installation of EWF. 

 

Ms. Sonnevelt asked Mr. Doss if he could say how many of the City Playgrounds with 
EWF are in compliance with the ADA. Mr. Doss advised he was not sure. Because 
playgrounds are active environments which have constant use it is difficult to keep 
playgrounds using EWF in compliance. Some playgrounds may require daily 
maintenance depending on the volume of use. 

 

It was asked if Federal approval is required for playground designs. Ms. McManus 
advised that it is not. However, an agency must develop and maintain a plan to bring 
facilities into compliance with ADA accessibility requirements and when playgrounds are 
renovated they must be brought up to current ADA standards. If not, a user may file a 
complaint with the Department of Justice which may result in review and possible 
punitive action for failure to comply with the ADA. 

 

Ms. Scorato noted she had confirmed that EWF is ADA compliant and asked if funding 
could be allocated differently (Capital Expenses versus Operating Expenses) such that 
maintenance concerns could be addressed. Ms. Skolnik advised she believed this might 
be an appropriate solution but could not comment on how funding might be reallocated. 

 

Ms. Scorato advised PAH’s (Polyacrylic Aromatic Hydrocarbons) are present in recycled 
tire rubber and can emit VOC’s (Volatile Organic Compounds). A recent study (2010) 
indicated this can occur at temperatures as low as 77 degree Fahrenheit. Ms. Skolnik 
requested the name of the study for possible further consideration. 

 


Mr. Zirkin asked why Rubber Mulch does not meet ADA standards. Ms. McManus 
referenced a new study recently completed by the University of Indiana at Bloomington 
and stated testing concluded this surface creates more resistance for individuals in wheel 
chairs making it not in compliance with ADA standards. 

 

Ms. Rosenthal noted that she felt there should be better representation from the scientific 
community at the meeting to advise PRAB. Ms. Skolnik stated staff had contacted 
representatives from the Environmental Protection Agency, Consumer Product Safety 
Commission, Maryland Department of Natural Resources and the American Society for 
Testing and Materials and they were either not available or not interested in attending. 

 

Ms. Stewart advised she was concerned by the high temperatures that can occur with 
Poured in Place surfacing and noted an experience where her child burned their hands on 
a hot playground surface. Further, with the high temperature, she is concerned there 
would be greater “off gassing” during those times. 

 

It was asked if there is data to indicate a decline in playground injuries since the CPSC 
was established in the early 1990’s. Ms. McManus indicated she believe there was but 
did not have the data available. 

 

Ms. Scorato stated there are studies that indicate EWF is more effective at preventing 
head injury than rubber. 

 

Mr. Blue advised that in cold temperatures, EWF can retain moisture and freeze making 
the surface very hard. Mr. Lienesch stated that this can also occur with rubber surfaces 
depending on how quickly temperatures drop. He advised that some school systems do 
not allow children on playgrounds when the temperature is lower because of this issue. 
Once again, Mr. Lienesch emphasized how important it is to have a good installation as 
this can prevent this issue somewhat and increase the life of the surface. 

 

Ms. Fallon asked if toxicity and “off gassing” can diminish over time. Mr. Blue indicated 
he believed it would. 

 

Ms. Skolnik observed that there are tires all around us in use on highways and roads. Ms. 
Scorato agreed and noted that “off gassing” is an issue in high traffic areas. 

 

Members of PRAB expressed desire for further consideration of this matter any possibly 
getting additional perspectives prior to making a recommendation to City Council. 

 

Ms. McManus and Mr. Lienesch were thanked for attending and offering their 
perspectives. 

 

The meeting was adjourned at 9:32 p.m. 

 

Minutes unanimously approved at the 1-15-14 meeting. 

 

Attachments: 

 

. 
Ms. Patricia McManus Power Point 11-20-13